Stories to Share.....
This page is for all of us to share stories. Send them to me via e-mail along with a current photo. I hope Jack Hicks will send some more "Fine as wine mobile 9" accounts like he told at the reunion. If I have posted an email you want removed, just let me know. Mike Minear
"The Den"...Christina Adams Belinn
LAX IFR Approach (During a Tornado) Harry Knickelbein
Jack Hicks calls Bob Husein, "Bob do we have a mobile 9?"
Airline operations before deregulation...
I sent an email to Stephen Slade, asking, what it was like to operate before deregulation. Here is Steve's answer...
|TO: MINEAR 1
Mike: The Civil Aeronautics Board (CAB), which existed from 1938 to 1978, was the US Government agency which oversaw, often in the most burdensome detail, the economic regulation of air carriers, including domestic and international route matters. Safety matters were transferred in 1958 to the FAA, which continues to regulate them. The CAB went out of business shortly after deregulation in 1978. In the simplest terms, the immediate major change was that domestic routes and domestic fare changes no longer had to be specifically applied for and approved. Some economic regulation remains, especially internationally, where routes must still be applied for, and this activity was picked up by and is now handled by USDOT with advice from the State Department.
The photo shows a typical paperwork exercise required of helicopter carriers under CAB regulation, still in full swing in 1970. When schedule changes were made, an original and 19 copies had to be filed with the CAB and served as well on local jurisdictions, mayors etc. The "flight pattern amendment", which I had completely forgotten about until your message, was a schematic drawing of a new route pattern showing changes from the previous filing. That big chunk of paper looks like the 19 copies and signed original at the bottom, awaiting the trip to Washington. Delores Hicks will remember all too well having to type this mind numbing stuff on mimeograph stencils which then had to be proofread by Fred, myself, perhaps Hubley and probably John Kane before it went out.
Is that model still around? It was made by Sikorsky and CMB used to ship it back when we had subsidy hearings on the Hill. It could be plugged in, the cabin lit up inside and the blades turned slowly. As Clarence knew, Congressmen and Senators sitting on the other side of a table couldn't resist playing with it, which often led to friendly questioning. Best S
Note: To my knowledge the model disappeard right after the bankruptcy and no one seems to know where it went. Mike Minear
|TO: MINEAR 1
Mike: The Civil Aeronautics Board (CAB), which existed from 1938 to 1978, was the US Government agency which oversaw, often in the most burdensome detail, the economic regulation of air carriers, including domestic and international route matters. Safety matters were transferred in 1958 to the FAA, which continues to regulate them. The CAB went out of business shortly after deregulation in 1978. In the simplest terms, the immediate major change was that domestic routes and domestic fare changes no longer had to be specifically applied for and approved. Some economic regulation remains, especially internationally, where routes must still be applied for, and this activity was picked up by and is now handled by USDOT with advice from the State Department.
The photo shows a typical paperwork exercise required of helicopter carriers under CAB regulation, still in full swing in 1970. When schedule changes were made, an original and 19 copies had to be filed with the CAB and served as well on local jurisdictions, mayors etc. The "flight pattern amendment", which I had completely forgotten about until your message, was a schematic drawing of a new route pattern showing changes from the previous filing. That big chunk of paper looks like the 19 copies and signed original at the bottom, awaiting the trip to Washington. Delores Hicks will remember all too well having to type this mind numbing stuff on mimeograph stencils which then had to be proofread by Fred, myself, perhaps Hubley and probably John Kane before it went out.
Is that model still around? It was made by Sikorsky and CMB used to ship it back when we had subsidy hearings on the Hill. It could be plugged in, the cabin lit up inside and the blades turned slowly. As Clarence knew, Congressmen and Senators sitting on the other side of a table couldn't resist playing with it, which often led to friendly questioning. Best S
Note: To my knowledge the model disappeard right after the bankruptcy and no one seems to know where it went. Mike Minear
Pilot's Expertise.... by Jim De Neui
Experience on ramp @ ANA by Larry Belinn
Dear Mike, It brought smiles to my face as you reminded me of our times at the Anaheim Heliport. I was a pretty green "ramp rat" and it reminds me of another incident which made me wonder what I was doing handling baggage. As you remember, we had to unload luggage quickly and we encountered all kinds of things in the pods including a large cardboard box I pulled from the top hefted out over the tarmac. Unfortunately the bottom was soaking wet and the contents slipped out and broken glass littered the ramp. To my chagrin the pax informed me this was a case of rare wine from the Napa Valley, apparently in transit there was leakage. I felt bad about the mess but worse about al that good wine going to waste.
Picking up new aircraft ferry trips, by Bill Withcombe
Waiting for photo from Bill
Bill it would really be interesting if you could share memories of that ferry trip back from the factory. It was years after we ceased operation that I found out how much Fred Milam was involved in the design of "our" S-61 's. I didn't know that the windows were placed is exact place seats were put so there would be more shoulder room for passengers. Thanks for you comments.
Mike Minear
Hi Milke : During the nine years I worked for LAAI had the pleasure of working with some really great people. I started as a mechanic fresh out of Northrop University and the military. That was 1962, I wound up being a lead supervisor and eventually into the management position of Chief Inspector for the company.(I replaced Gordon Hodges when he left the company). I had the pleasure of being on the crew for three such LAA ferry flights to pick up new aircraft. Two s-61's and one DHC-6. On these flights I flew with a couple of different crews but the one I remember most was with Ron Clark and our Chief Pilot Ron Crawford. That flight took place in 1968 as I recall. We always performed an acceptance inspection of the aircraft first then a test flight at the factory. This was to check the aircraft out and then have any discrepancies corrected by the factory team. The ferry flights were long and involved at least 8 hours of flight time and duty time each day. We usually stopped for fuel every few hours. The trip was 3 to 4 days long and involved overnight stays at various major urban airports. These were usually Dayton Ohio , St Lewis , Oklahoma City, El Paso Texas and then on into LA. We always flew the Southern route because of the high mountains to the North, our crossing point was to the West of El Paso in the low mountain passes there. These helicopters had very little navigation equipment in them so all the flying was done by dead reckoning . This sometime caused us some concern, Fuel consumption was always a problem. One time we were running low on fuel over Oklahoma and we landed just inside the airport fence at Tulsa, Oklahoma. We thought the fuel gauges were wrong but when we fueled up the tanks took 400 gallons of JP. That was the listed maximum fuel capacity for the S-61. Had we flown for another 10 minutes we would have run out of fuel in flight! Another memorable event enroute was our encounter with a large bull steer as we flew over the Midwest. We usually flew at low altitude not much over 1500 ft above ground level. On this day we were flying at about 300 to 500 feet, as we passed over a meadow we noticed a large bull at one end. He saw us too, he thought we were a danger to him so he lowered his head with horns pointed directly at us and charged straight at us. Of course we just flew right over him and as we did he came to screeching stop and whiled around wondering where we went! The weather was always a factor from ice on the aircraft to thunderstorms over the Midwest. I recall the aircraft being so hot over the California desert that we were unable to touch the controls or any metal surfaces on the helicopter unless we wore protective gloves.
All in all some memorable experiences that one never forgets . The United States is a wonderful sight flying low over it in a helicopter from coast to coast. But it was not a joy ride either, at days end we were tired and worn out by the constant roar of the machine and of course vibration that never seemed to go away even after we landed. ! But I would do it all over again if the offer came up !
Bill I always wanted to take one of those trips , I guess you see a lot of
country at such low altitude and poking along at 130 knots. I can
remember Boyd Kesserling and Ron Crawford planning the fuel stops when we
took delivery of the first S-61 as Jet-A wasn't as readly available at the
FBOs as it is now. Thanks for permission to send it out to everyone.
Did anything interesting happen on the Twin Otter trips?
Mike
The LAA Otters , DHC-6-300's, were built near Toronto , Canada . The one I helped ferry had to clear through US Customs in Buffalo , NY. I met the crew and the aircraft there. I did a prefilght inspection and we departed from there for LA. The aircraft had no radios or navigation equipment in it. We had a portable battery powered radio which worked but had very short range. There was also a portable battery powered VOR onboard which never worked. These units were provided by DeHavilland as temporary avionics for the trip. The X-Country flights were much like the helicopter flights, lots of stops for fuel and rest. They took 3 or 4 days as well to reach LA. There were some exciting moments because of the lack of good navigation equipment onboard and a radio which worked only when you were right on top on the tower you need to talk to. I recall us getting lost over Arkansas somewhere near the city of Ft. Smith. We flew on until the fuel looked critical. Crawford spotted a small uncontrolled airport below , due to low fuel we had to land. It was a gravel strip in Oklahoma just over the Arkansas border. We went inside the small FBO there to find out where we were. We drew quite a crowd around the aircraft as it was the biggest thing to land there in the history of that little airport. They did not have Jet -A so I fueled it up with a some 100 octane fuel for a short flight to Oklahoma City where we topped off with Jet-A. The PT-6 engine could be run on regular Av -gas for short periods of time per the Pratt manuals. We made it back to LA with no problems after that. Although we were all sweating out that radio, we feared it would give out on us in the LAX airspace. But, since we conserved the power of the battery it worked to get us into the LAX airspace okay.
These aircraft were in a "green" condition. We put all the avionics in them after they arrived at LAA. They were painted at Cable airport and then placed in service. The aircraft were leased from Howard Hughes as I recall. Hard to imagine that was nearly 33 years ago now. You can share this with the others from LAA if you like. I enjoyed the pictures you sent out today.
Thanks
Mike Minear
Hi Milke : During the nine years I worked for LAAI had the pleasure of working with some really great people. I started as a mechanic fresh out of Northrop University and the military. That was 1962, I wound up being a lead supervisor and eventually into the management position of Chief Inspector for the company.(I replaced Gordon Hodges when he left the company). I had the pleasure of being on the crew for three such LAA ferry flights to pick up new aircraft. Two s-61's and one DHC-6. On these flights I flew with a couple of different crews but the one I remember most was with Ron Clark and our Chief Pilot Ron Crawford. That flight took place in 1968 as I recall. We always performed an acceptance inspection of the aircraft first then a test flight at the factory. This was to check the aircraft out and then have any discrepancies corrected by the factory team. The ferry flights were long and involved at least 8 hours of flight time and duty time each day. We usually stopped for fuel every few hours. The trip was 3 to 4 days long and involved overnight stays at various major urban airports. These were usually Dayton Ohio , St Lewis , Oklahoma City, El Paso Texas and then on into LA. We always flew the Southern route because of the high mountains to the North, our crossing point was to the West of El Paso in the low mountain passes there. These helicopters had very little navigation equipment in them so all the flying was done by dead reckoning . This sometime caused us some concern, Fuel consumption was always a problem. One time we were running low on fuel over Oklahoma and we landed just inside the airport fence at Tulsa, Oklahoma. We thought the fuel gauges were wrong but when we fueled up the tanks took 400 gallons of JP. That was the listed maximum fuel capacity for the S-61. Had we flown for another 10 minutes we would have run out of fuel in flight! Another memorable event enroute was our encounter with a large bull steer as we flew over the Midwest. We usually flew at low altitude not much over 1500 ft above ground level. On this day we were flying at about 300 to 500 feet, as we passed over a meadow we noticed a large bull at one end. He saw us too, he thought we were a danger to him so he lowered his head with horns pointed directly at us and charged straight at us. Of course we just flew right over him and as we did he came to screeching stop and whiled around wondering where we went! The weather was always a factor from ice on the aircraft to thunderstorms over the Midwest. I recall the aircraft being so hot over the California desert that we were unable to touch the controls or any metal surfaces on the helicopter unless we wore protective gloves.
All in all some memorable experiences that one never forgets . The United States is a wonderful sight flying low over it in a helicopter from coast to coast. But it was not a joy ride either, at days end we were tired and worn out by the constant roar of the machine and of course vibration that never seemed to go away even after we landed. ! But I would do it all over again if the offer came up !
Bill I always wanted to take one of those trips , I guess you see a lot of
country at such low altitude and poking along at 130 knots. I can
remember Boyd Kesserling and Ron Crawford planning the fuel stops when we
took delivery of the first S-61 as Jet-A wasn't as readly available at the
FBOs as it is now. Thanks for permission to send it out to everyone.
Did anything interesting happen on the Twin Otter trips?
Mike
The LAA Otters , DHC-6-300's, were built near Toronto , Canada . The one I helped ferry had to clear through US Customs in Buffalo , NY. I met the crew and the aircraft there. I did a prefilght inspection and we departed from there for LA. The aircraft had no radios or navigation equipment in it. We had a portable battery powered radio which worked but had very short range. There was also a portable battery powered VOR onboard which never worked. These units were provided by DeHavilland as temporary avionics for the trip. The X-Country flights were much like the helicopter flights, lots of stops for fuel and rest. They took 3 or 4 days as well to reach LA. There were some exciting moments because of the lack of good navigation equipment onboard and a radio which worked only when you were right on top on the tower you need to talk to. I recall us getting lost over Arkansas somewhere near the city of Ft. Smith. We flew on until the fuel looked critical. Crawford spotted a small uncontrolled airport below , due to low fuel we had to land. It was a gravel strip in Oklahoma just over the Arkansas border. We went inside the small FBO there to find out where we were. We drew quite a crowd around the aircraft as it was the biggest thing to land there in the history of that little airport. They did not have Jet -A so I fueled it up with a some 100 octane fuel for a short flight to Oklahoma City where we topped off with Jet-A. The PT-6 engine could be run on regular Av -gas for short periods of time per the Pratt manuals. We made it back to LA with no problems after that. Although we were all sweating out that radio, we feared it would give out on us in the LAX airspace. But, since we conserved the power of the battery it worked to get us into the LAX airspace okay.
These aircraft were in a "green" condition. We put all the avionics in them after they arrived at LAA. They were painted at Cable airport and then placed in service. The aircraft were leased from Howard Hughes as I recall. Hard to imagine that was nearly 33 years ago now. You can share this with the others from LAA if you like. I enjoyed the pictures you sent out today.
Thanks